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7 Wonders raportit
#11068: "When buying to neighbours, no need to detail every possibility"
implemented: Tämä ehdotus on toteutettu
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Ehdotus: Mielestäni seuraava seikka parantaisi pelin toteutusta huomattavasti
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Mozilla v5
Raportin historia
26. syys 2018 3:01 • ludique • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:
When I want to build a card requiring many resources, and I have for example the caravansery and the forum (yellow cards producing brown or grey resources), but still not enough resources, the game will propose to buy to my neighbours with every possibility.
This image will explain quickly what I mean:
i.imgur.com/7JR08SS.png (I was building the palace, one resource of each type is needed.)
In the picture there are actually only 3 choices: 2 coins for Hamjy, 1 coin for each neighbour, or 3 coins for Narmo. I don't need the list of every thing.
How to improve : always write the cheapest solutions first (happen with a specifically oriented Trading Post), then a separation with more expensive solutions, and summarise money given to who.
[Give 1 to Right Neighbour and 1 to Left Neighbour]
[Give 2 to Left Neighbour]
--- more expensive solutions ---
[Give 3 to Right Neighbour]
This image will explain quickly what I mean:
i.imgur.com/7JR08SS.png (I was building the palace, one resource of each type is needed.)
In the picture there are actually only 3 choices: 2 coins for Hamjy, 1 coin for each neighbour, or 3 coins for Narmo. I don't need the list of every thing.
How to improve : always write the cheapest solutions first (happen with a specifically oriented Trading Post), then a separation with more expensive solutions, and summarise money given to who.
[Give 1 to Right Neighbour and 1 to Left Neighbour]
[Give 2 to Left Neighbour]
--- more expensive solutions ---
[Give 3 to Right Neighbour]
26. syys 2018 3:23 • ludique • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:
14. touko 2019 0:23 • ZeliTheZealot • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
imgur.com/a/y6igHoU
I've only been playing for a handful of games and this case comes up...
the suggestion is nice and please try to implement it;DD
would increase game speed by a lot
I've only been playing for a handful of games and this case comes up...
the suggestion is nice and please try to implement it;DD
would increase game speed by a lot
15. touko 2019 0:30 • diamant • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
I agree to sort the different solutions by increasing price and group similar solutions. I don't agree to summarise money given to who, except if this would be an option.
16. touko 2019 2:43 • ZeliTheZealot • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
in reply to diamant
the only three things that matter in a trade are: (assuming you have neighbours A and B)
1. how much you lose
2. how much A gets
3. how much B gets
If these are displayed (once and once only for each possibility) then nothing else matters
Sometimes you might want to limit cash flow to a certain neighbour, maybe because it's late game and close, or because you'd want to starve them.
Currently the system makes it very hard to even find the cheapest option among dozens of options, let alone finding the most strategically sensical one.
Thanks devs. much love
the only three things that matter in a trade are: (assuming you have neighbours A and B)
1. how much you lose
2. how much A gets
3. how much B gets
If these are displayed (once and once only for each possibility) then nothing else matters
Sometimes you might want to limit cash flow to a certain neighbour, maybe because it's late game and close, or because you'd want to starve them.
Currently the system makes it very hard to even find the cheapest option among dozens of options, let alone finding the most strategically sensical one.
Thanks devs. much love
21. maalis 2020 8:58 • Chookie • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
This is a much needed improvement to the game. Could someone look into implementing this please?
Thanks a lot :)
Thanks a lot :)
27. huhti 2020 3:06 • Sweetpaq • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
Also French rules Book does not specify that you cant buy resources from a neighbour double brown primary resource card. It seems that the site is not allowing us to trade those resources. This unbalancing the value of yellow cards and increasing double resource card.
3. touko 2020 12:17 • Xapa • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
Un aperçu d'une partie 7Wonders jouée hier soir...
Je voulais acheter des ressources à mes voisins, voici ce que BGA m'a affiché.
En terme de lisibilité, on fait difficilement... pire. Face à ce bordel, j'ai finalement joué autre chose.
Peut-être pourrions-nous effectivement améliorer cela (je rejoins les propositions précédentes :-))
Capture d'écran / Printscreen of yesterday's game on BGA:
imgur.com/Vhvtq6q
Merci beaucoup
Je voulais acheter des ressources à mes voisins, voici ce que BGA m'a affiché.
En terme de lisibilité, on fait difficilement... pire. Face à ce bordel, j'ai finalement joué autre chose.
Peut-être pourrions-nous effectivement améliorer cela (je rejoins les propositions précédentes :-))
Capture d'écran / Printscreen of yesterday's game on BGA:
imgur.com/Vhvtq6q
Merci beaucoup
7. touko 2020 2:15 • VIG Sparks • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
I built my wonder, giving me the ability to Copy a Guild Card from a neighbor. It did not give me the option or the points I would have gained
9. touko 2020 18:48 • bokanist • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
To simplify this display.
We don't care about what is bought, the only important thing is the amount of money given to each opponent.
For any amount of money given to player A, only the solution paying lowest amount for player B should be kept.
New players just care about the cheapest option, so we can underline or display it in green.
So in the end it's just a scale from left player to right player. Example we need 2 ressources and can buy them for 1 coin to right player. The list could be displayed like this each button is in bracket and contain [Money for left player - money for right player]:
Left player - Right player
[4] [2 - 1] [_0 - 2_]
So the simplification Could be made like this :
- One pass to compute the relevent information "paid to left player" (Called L) and "paid to right player" (called R) and total (called T)
- Sort by increasing R, for any equal values of R sort by decreasing L
- One pass on the array to filter pairs of neighbors (duplicates and too expensive) : if(L1==L2 and R1<=R2) then discard item 2, if(R1==R2 and L1>=L2) then discard item 1
- Find the least expensive total
- Display options left to right
We don't care about what is bought, the only important thing is the amount of money given to each opponent.
For any amount of money given to player A, only the solution paying lowest amount for player B should be kept.
New players just care about the cheapest option, so we can underline or display it in green.
So in the end it's just a scale from left player to right player. Example we need 2 ressources and can buy them for 1 coin to right player. The list could be displayed like this each button is in bracket and contain [Money for left player - money for right player]:
Left player - Right player
[4] [2 - 1] [_0 - 2_]
So the simplification Could be made like this :
- One pass to compute the relevent information "paid to left player" (Called L) and "paid to right player" (called R) and total (called T)
- Sort by increasing R, for any equal values of R sort by decreasing L
- One pass on the array to filter pairs of neighbors (duplicates and too expensive) : if(L1==L2 and R1<=R2) then discard item 2, if(R1==R2 and L1>=L2) then discard item 1
- Find the least expensive total
- Display options left to right
15. touko 2020 2:30 • twigthe1st • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
I would like to add that sometimes it is difficult to find the cheapest option. Making use of highlighting or some kind of intuitive ordering would help.
2. kesä 2020 2:26 • CaKtus • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
Fully agree. No need for details. A sorted display of what L and R will get.
4. kesä 2020 12:46 • diamant • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
I completely disagree with the comments that ask to limit the information and options of the players when purchasing the resources necessary for the construction of a building.
My opinion is that the implementation should not constrain the players, compared to the real game, and that a good ergonomics must repeat the processes observed during a real game.
When a player buys resources from his neighbors in the real game, he decides to buy from such neighbor for each resource he needs (that is, if he needs 2 woods, he can buy them from 2 different neighbors).
This is exactly what the implementation must do: for each resource needed, in the order of the resources on the card of the building to be built, the player must be able to decide to whom he buys this resource by means of checkboxes. Neighbors are presented by decreasing purchase price, and in the reverse order of the turn in case of equal prices. The left most checkbox is checked by default.
At the end of the list of needed resources, an additional line takes balance of the previous lines, total paid by the player, total received by each neighbor in the reverse order of the turn and includes a single button to validate the choices of the previous lines.
My opinion is that the implementation should not constrain the players, compared to the real game, and that a good ergonomics must repeat the processes observed during a real game.
When a player buys resources from his neighbors in the real game, he decides to buy from such neighbor for each resource he needs (that is, if he needs 2 woods, he can buy them from 2 different neighbors).
This is exactly what the implementation must do: for each resource needed, in the order of the resources on the card of the building to be built, the player must be able to decide to whom he buys this resource by means of checkboxes. Neighbors are presented by decreasing purchase price, and in the reverse order of the turn in case of equal prices. The left most checkbox is checked by default.
At the end of the list of needed resources, an additional line takes balance of the previous lines, total paid by the player, total received by each neighbor in the reverse order of the turn and includes a single button to validate the choices of the previous lines.
4. kesä 2020 12:49 • diamant • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
In my previous comment, please read "by increasing purchase price", not "by decreasing purchase price".
10. kesä 2020 2:13 • freddkham • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
21. kesä 2020 11:59 • Cullich • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
To the admins/developer: just totally agree. It's difficult to follow and unnecessary
@diamant - While I like making an online game as close to the real experience as possible, and generally dislike things that just allow players to be too darn lazy, in this case I have to disagree. When I play this in real life, it's a heck of a lot easier for me to figure out who I'm buying what from. The problem with the implementation is, while it might more duplicate the real experience, it's just dang hard to read and figure out!! I have to spend way too much time on it and it bugs out my eyes. In the end, I just want to know how much I'm spending and who's getting it.
@freddkham - Feel for ya. I've had some longer lists, but I would freak if I ever saw that one. (Going to post a screenshot of that to the people I play with.)
@diamant - While I like making an online game as close to the real experience as possible, and generally dislike things that just allow players to be too darn lazy, in this case I have to disagree. When I play this in real life, it's a heck of a lot easier for me to figure out who I'm buying what from. The problem with the implementation is, while it might more duplicate the real experience, it's just dang hard to read and figure out!! I have to spend way too much time on it and it bugs out my eyes. In the end, I just want to know how much I'm spending and who's getting it.
@freddkham - Feel for ya. I've had some longer lists, but I would freak if I ever saw that one. (Going to post a screenshot of that to the people I play with.)
27. heinä 2020 9:33 • Valezius • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
I think this implementation is wrong. A better would be that BSW use(d).
Card has resource cost. You just should show this needed resources one by one, Green checkmark if I have it, nothing if I don't directly have it.
If have to "buy" I can choose to buy from left or right, or use one of my special cards to fill it (brown 2 different resource, yellow card, wonder resource possibility)
In real game if I want to build a card I check what is missing and check how much to buy it. I won't check all possibilities in this form just like the program do now.
Card has resource cost. You just should show this needed resources one by one, Green checkmark if I have it, nothing if I don't directly have it.
If have to "buy" I can choose to buy from left or right, or use one of my special cards to fill it (brown 2 different resource, yellow card, wonder resource possibility)
In real game if I want to build a card I check what is missing and check how much to buy it. I won't check all possibilities in this form just like the program do now.
12. elo 2020 5:02 • SLLeath • Kehittäjät eivät ole vielä tutkineet tätä ehdotusta:
My internet was fine. Both games I got kicked out of the game.
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Lisää tähän mitä tahansa, minkä katsot oleelliseksi tämän bugin toisintamiseksi tai ehdotuksesi ymmärtämiseksi:
- Toinen pöydän tunnus / siirron numero
- Ratkaisiko F5 ongelman?
- Ilmestyykö ongelma useita kertoja? Joka kerta? Satunnaisesti?
- Jos sinulla on kuvankaappaus tästä bugista, voit käyttää Imgur.com:a sen lähettämiseksi. Kopioi ja liitä linkki tähän.
