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Tiny Epic Defenders (toinen painos) raportit
#158892: "Randal's ability implemented incorrectly, allows Plains Safeguard while in adjacent regions"
fixed: Bugi on korjattu
2
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The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on.• Onko sääntörikkomus nähtävillä pelin toistossa? Jos kyllä, mikä on siirron numero?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.• Mikä on selaimesi?
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Raportin historia
21. helmi 2025 22:34 •
Blccdy • Kehittäjät pyytävät lisätietoja tämän bugin toistamiseen:
24. helmi 2025 18:56 • I am not sure if I want to fix it.
Right now it works as intended by me. Randal copies all the abilities around him from other Defenders and from other Regions.
But you are right with wording of the card: "Your Turn" and "Use abilities".
I think I will get other reports about Randals ability not working, when I exclude specific abilities from beeing copied. Right now it feels the the most reports are for Randal anyway.
When I exclude the Safeguard Ability from the Plains Region, I should probably exclude some more abilities:
- Um'Taks Berserk: Use Sacrifice multiple times -> This is not an ability that is actively "used". So it would not match the "Use abilities" wording.
- Adelphos Transport: move another Defender together with you -> also passive ability
- Ezru Courage: Reduce Threat at the start of your Turn -> yes "Your Turn", bit again passive abilit. You do not "use the ability".
- Laishom Command: When you draw your Defender card -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
- Pteryx Maneuver: When you defend -> also a "defend" effect like the Plains Safeguard.
- Oryk Matyr: after defending lose HP instead of defending player -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
In case Randal plays together with only the characters mentioned above, he can not copy anything from the Defenders and is kind of useless. I do not know if copying Region abilities of nearby Regions is still enough to let Randal be an useful character.
But I am still interested in your opinion! (Implementing a fix for this is not a big deal)
Right now it works as intended by me. Randal copies all the abilities around him from other Defenders and from other Regions.
But you are right with wording of the card: "Your Turn" and "Use abilities".
I think I will get other reports about Randals ability not working, when I exclude specific abilities from beeing copied. Right now it feels the the most reports are for Randal anyway.
When I exclude the Safeguard Ability from the Plains Region, I should probably exclude some more abilities:
- Um'Taks Berserk: Use Sacrifice multiple times -> This is not an ability that is actively "used". So it would not match the "Use abilities" wording.
- Adelphos Transport: move another Defender together with you -> also passive ability
- Ezru Courage: Reduce Threat at the start of your Turn -> yes "Your Turn", bit again passive abilit. You do not "use the ability".
- Laishom Command: When you draw your Defender card -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
- Pteryx Maneuver: When you defend -> also a "defend" effect like the Plains Safeguard.
- Oryk Matyr: after defending lose HP instead of defending player -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
In case Randal plays together with only the characters mentioned above, he can not copy anything from the Defenders and is kind of useless. I do not know if copying Region abilities of nearby Regions is still enough to let Randal be an useful character.
But I am still interested in your opinion! (Implementing a fix for this is not a big deal)
dmau1986 • Kehittäjät pyytävät lisätietoja tämän bugin toistamiseen:
26. helmi 2025 20:45 • Let me start by saying I only have a few games of TED played so far, so I certainly haven't personally experienced all the possible scenarios you mentioned. With that said, here are my thoughts:
I think there's certainly room for debate on what "Use abilities" exactly means, and there can be a spectrum of reasonable interpretations. But I believe the "On your turn" phrase is much more clear cut, so I would suggest limiting the scope of this round of potential changes to focusing on this criteria, and see what the downstream impact is.
I believe the Plains (Safeguard) ability is the only one from the regions that falls under this category, and implementation-wise, I suspect the programming logic for the Plains (Safeguard) could be essentially identical to the Desert (Mirage). If this were the only change you made, that could be a reasonable choice.
However, if you decide you want to consider "On your turn" regarding copying other Defenders' abilities, here are my thoughts (again I'm ignoring the active/passive issue for this ticket):
- Ezru Courage: Agreed that is your turn, therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Laishom Command: My interpretation is that "As soon as your Defender card is drawn", it is already your turn, because the end of that ability says "...and then continue your turn", not "...and then start your turn". Therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Lealith Retribution: Not your turn when you would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Martyr: Not your turn when your teammate would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Strong: Can be during your turn, Active/passive decision
- Um'Tak Berserk: During your turn, Active/passive decision
- Adelphos: Both abilities are during your turn, both are active/passive decision
- Harpier: Cleave is clearly during your turn and active, Iron Hide is defend, so would never apply
- Pteryx Maneuver: Defend, so would never apply
The other champions I didn't mention have abilities clearly during your turn and active.
Finally, regarding your concern about Randal still being useful if some abilities are excluded, I would say that even if NONE of the other Defenders' abilities were available to Randal and if the Safeguard ability were only available while ON the Plains, I believe Randal is by far the most overpowered Defender, because his action economy is incredible (when you can move less, you can do way more things) and even provides compounding value when the Coast is on the Dispatch side. For example I'm currently in a game with Coast (Dispatch) on the left and Forest (Enchant) on the right, and I essentially never need to leave the Capital City, because I can Dispatch my teammate and/or Enchant, and automatically heal to full so I can Sacrifice freely. I'm not only saving my own actions but also my teammate's. The game is on highest difficulty and I expect to tackle it very easily.
Let me know your thoughts and what you decide!
I think there's certainly room for debate on what "Use abilities" exactly means, and there can be a spectrum of reasonable interpretations. But I believe the "On your turn" phrase is much more clear cut, so I would suggest limiting the scope of this round of potential changes to focusing on this criteria, and see what the downstream impact is.
I believe the Plains (Safeguard) ability is the only one from the regions that falls under this category, and implementation-wise, I suspect the programming logic for the Plains (Safeguard) could be essentially identical to the Desert (Mirage). If this were the only change you made, that could be a reasonable choice.
However, if you decide you want to consider "On your turn" regarding copying other Defenders' abilities, here are my thoughts (again I'm ignoring the active/passive issue for this ticket):
- Ezru Courage: Agreed that is your turn, therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Laishom Command: My interpretation is that "As soon as your Defender card is drawn", it is already your turn, because the end of that ability says "...and then continue your turn", not "...and then start your turn". Therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Lealith Retribution: Not your turn when you would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Martyr: Not your turn when your teammate would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Strong: Can be during your turn, Active/passive decision
- Um'Tak Berserk: During your turn, Active/passive decision
- Adelphos: Both abilities are during your turn, both are active/passive decision
- Harpier: Cleave is clearly during your turn and active, Iron Hide is defend, so would never apply
- Pteryx Maneuver: Defend, so would never apply
The other champions I didn't mention have abilities clearly during your turn and active.
Finally, regarding your concern about Randal still being useful if some abilities are excluded, I would say that even if NONE of the other Defenders' abilities were available to Randal and if the Safeguard ability were only available while ON the Plains, I believe Randal is by far the most overpowered Defender, because his action economy is incredible (when you can move less, you can do way more things) and even provides compounding value when the Coast is on the Dispatch side. For example I'm currently in a game with Coast (Dispatch) on the left and Forest (Enchant) on the right, and I essentially never need to leave the Capital City, because I can Dispatch my teammate and/or Enchant, and automatically heal to full so I can Sacrifice freely. I'm not only saving my own actions but also my teammate's. The game is on highest difficulty and I expect to tackle it very easily.
Let me know your thoughts and what you decide!
Blccdy • Kehittäjät ovat vahvistaneet bugin:
26. helmi 2025 21:12 • Thank your for the extensive thoughts.
I think you persuaded me when you just focus on the "your turn" aspect of the wording. Because Use Ability is not defined very well.
Just in case you are interested: The implementation is straight forward. I will mark all the applicable abilities as "in-your-turn"-abilities and Randal will only copy these.
I think you persuaded me when you just focus on the "your turn" aspect of the wording. Because Use Ability is not defined very well.
Just in case you are interested: The implementation is straight forward. I will mark all the applicable abilities as "in-your-turn"-abilities and Randal will only copy these.
Blccdy • Bugi on korjattu:
2. maalis 2025 10:59 • Changes are live. Randal can no longer use:
- Safeguard
- IronHide
- Maneuver
- Martyr
- Retribution
- Safeguard
- IronHide
- Maneuver
- Martyr
- Retribution
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