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#37787: "Not all Technology cards not revealed"

open: Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia

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Beyond the Sun #160469552

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Säännöt: pelin sääntöä ei ole noudatettu

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1. huhti 2021 19:49 • MasN • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

This is important, since the cards go to the bottom of the deck and the deck is not shuffled. Thus a later player may use the information of which technology is out of the pool to decide what technologies they want to research.

1. huhti 2021 20:02 • Mogri • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

This information is helpful at high levels of play, but most players won't have memorized the technologies, and telling them that Bio-Synaptic Network is now at the bottom of the deck isn't very helpful, because they probably don't know what that card is.

On the one hand, we could say that's fine: new players don't know the contents of the decks anyway, so it's less important that they know which card is on bottom.

On the other hand, it further disadvantages all but the most experienced players, which is undesirable. You shouldn't have to know the name of every technology to be able to play well.

For that reason, I'm not inclined to simply add a log message telling which cards are now at the bottom, but if you have a solution to bridge that gap, I'm willing to rethink that. Perhaps listing all of the technology cards in the "How to play?" or "Strategy tips" sections -- it wouldn't help non-English players, but it would be better than nothing.

2. huhti 2021 4:48 • MasN • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

Well, first of all, I believe this is a game rule, not an "advanced variant" to reveal all technologies.

However, I agree that not memorizing the technologies would hurt new people, as well as people who know remember technologies by their color pair rather than their name.

One thing that comes to mind is the UI for the advanced research cards in eminient domain on this site. The stacks are shown beside the board, and clicking a stack would show all cards in it. So we could have a II stack, III stack, and IIII stack. This would be a lot easier to reference than a list in Strategy Tips.

21. touko 2021 12:11 • lorean • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

This is true, it's a game rule. In the physical board game you have to turn over these cards to discover the technologies that follow the color of the tech you're researching until you have 2. It's one of the advantages of digital implementation that you can have that kind of activity done automatically for you, but it does change the rules and knowledge of the game.

Since it's a board game first and a digital implementation second, it should follow the rules of the game.

Regardless of how "undesirable" it is to have a high skill ceiling.

4. heinä 2021 11:14 • Thyrus • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

I agree with the above posters that this is a rule of the game and therefore should be implemented. Moreover, it is not just about raising the skill ceiling (i.e., comparing inexperienced players with experienced ones).

It also changes the balance of the game when playing among experts: The later one researches unknown technologies, the more informed the decision about the color becomes (i.e. if the first player to reach a level 4 tech puts a few additional cards at the bottom, one can easily obtain a scenario where for some colors one has the guarantee to have some technology as one of the two choices). After all, there are only 4 possible matches for every color at level 4, and most of these are shared with other colors. Not having this information removes a significant advantage the rules give to the second/third player to pick up a level 4 tech.

13. joulu 2021 13:37 • victorl • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

It’s not just that the drawn cards aren’t displayed. I think the cards are actually randomly chosen every time from those remaining, which means that you can get the same card twice without seeing all the cards of that color and level. This makes the chance of “fishing” for a card much worse.

9. maalis 2022 17:00 • Icantdrawanime • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

Seconding victorl's statement. Our game just had an instance of this where we expected the last un-revealed red tech to pop up but it didn't, causing a player to lose the game because he couldn't get access to the T4 tech researching tool he needed.

This needs to be fixed since the current implementation of tech card draws violates the rules of the game, which explicitly require all techs of a color to be revealed before cycling occurs.

9. maalis 2022 17:06 • Icantdrawanime • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

This bug occurred on table #248602595

It occurred on purple player's 3rd to last turn. He pulled a repeat red tech and did not pull planetary scale research, which had not yet been seen in the game.

24. helmi 2023 17:12 • jakajaka2 • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

Reproduced at table #350007969. Purple player (me, jakajaka2) researched level 2 blue tech with all but 3 blue techs seen during the game, only 1/3 of which showed up in the selection instead of the guaranteed 2/3. This happened to be the only one of the 3 possibilities that did not suit the game plan.

It's really frustrating difference from game rules, as it makes planning ahead more difficult than it should be. I can image that beginners don't pay too much attention to the lengthy playlog anyways, so it wouldn't necessary make the experience that much worse to add log entry with the revealed techs.

19. touko 2023 23:55 • Keithustus • Ohjelmoijat eivät ole vielä löytäneet bugia:

I don't see a "Vote for this report" button so am posting my support. Have a dropbox or something in the log showing which cards were non-selects for color.

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#37787: "Not all Technology cards not revealed"

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